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the oldest and strongest human emotion

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is

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fear and the oldest and strongest type

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of

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when we were children our parents told

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us that monsters didn't exist

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but we were sure that something was

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lurking under the bed or in the closet

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fear sees even if our eyes are closed

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welcome to the realm of the arcane my

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name is lon stripler

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join me as i examine unexplained

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creatures

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strange manifestations of remarkable

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realities

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imagine this next hour as a voyage of

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discovery to strange lands

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seeking not for new territory but for

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new knowledge of the supernatural come

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on board as we begin

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hey folks good evening and welcome to

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another episode of arcane radio where we

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explore the unexplained

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here on the paranormal king radio

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network i'm your host alan strickler

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coming to you within a canon shot

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of historic gettysburg pennsylvania i

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thank you for joining me

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now before i introduce my guest this

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evening

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i just wanted to mention that uh on

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august 31st

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2000 of this year 2020

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i did receive a call from a madison

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wisconsin resident by the name of

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deshaunda johnson

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and this was in reference to her long

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history ufo sightings and encounters

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so i i went ahead as i usually do with

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calls and reports i contacted

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uh fans of monsters fortune research and

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fortune society investigator

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tobias well and asking him to look into

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the claims

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you can find his report on

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singularfortian.com

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or you can go to pharms monsters site

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and

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at the post title experiencer describes

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personal ufo instance in madison

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wisconsin

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it's a pretty good read so uh i

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recommend it highly

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now i want to thank those folks who

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attended our live

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beyond explanation youtube chat this

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past

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wednesday evening uh the chat was a

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success

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and so we are planning to continue this

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on a

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bi-monthly basis so just check in

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with the times and uh they'll be done on

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wednesday nights at nine o'clock p.m

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eastern time

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so we're we're going to try to do it

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like i said on bi-monthly or every two

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weeks

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uh i also want to thank the readers and

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listeners who contributed

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donations it's very much appreciated

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we continue to add more features to the

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blog

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and that beyond explanation

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also uh phantoms of monsters 14 research

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now has a dedicated website for case

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logs and other team and affiliate

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information

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you can find the site at

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cryptidhunters.org

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so tonight i welcome granite skies a

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disconcerted journey through the unknown

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authors no more slavic and mike

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stevens to arcane radio now nomore is an

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independent creator researcher

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and investigator in numerous aspects of

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the paranormal

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he delights in sharing stories through

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different mediums such as books

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documentaries

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and podcasts he has shared his work for

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hundreds

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of thousands of enthusiasts and has

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maintained a steady output

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of material for the past 20 years

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nomoreslavic.bigcartel.com

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mike stevens is a new hampshire native

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born and bred

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when not helping others with their

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experiences you can find him in the

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forest the mountains of the state

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camping and hiking mike hopes to combine

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his simple new england

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values with his own experiences to give

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people a positive new outlook

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on the ufo and abduction phenomena

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mike's website can be found at granite

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sky

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dot org so guys thanks for joining me

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this evening

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thanks so much for having us lon really

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appreciate it yeah thank you

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so mike or no more who ever wanted talk

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uh it's definitely beginning uh

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just talk about the experiences i'd say

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from the baby blue center to the rh

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negative blood and beyond

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yeah it's uh it's certainly a lifetime

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of encounters for mike starting

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with infancy but i guess to

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get us to the beginnings of where mike

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and i

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began interacting that started

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a few years ago now mike was part

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of the kri center for consciousness

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studies

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that was a place that would host many

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types of meetings

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anywhere from psychic and empath work to

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a

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meeting mike in person

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i'd heard some rumblings that he had

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some of his own experiences

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but the thing about mike is that he's he

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doesn't make everything about him

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you know you go to the center for a

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certain reason whether it's a

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presentation or an

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empath meeting or something you know

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mike's in the background he helps out

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with set up he helps out with with

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everything

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but he's not trying to be in your face

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and tell everyone his story i just heard

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some rumblings

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he showed me a really interesting

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picture one time when i was there

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of this light beam that was coming down

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from the sky

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that was near this cabin in new

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hampshire

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and that was obviously intriguing and uh

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you know so

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through us interacting and and talking

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more and becoming

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you know a little bit more than

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acquaintances uh i was starting to hear

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more and more parts of his story that he

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would uh you know

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share with me and we

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talked on the phone god i want to say it

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was probably

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two years ago now uh mike can correct me

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if i'm wrong but

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i think it was about two years ago now

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we had this really long conversation

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about a lot of different things but a

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lot of it included his experiences and i

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was just

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jaw-dropped at the amount of experiences

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that he's had and he was also

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very articulate and detail-oriented

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in his explanations and me and me being

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like a content

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creator and

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really finding stories like this

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fascinating that i want to share with as

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many people as possible

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we started floating around the idea of

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maybe

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me writing something about his

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experiences uh but

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at that point i was right in the throes

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of like three different projects i

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always have a ton of stuff going on

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and i wasn't going to be able to

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dedicate any time to it for quite a

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while

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and mike and i finally

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met formally for a sit-down long-form

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interview

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in to late 2018 or early 2019

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and i had this long-form interview i got

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basically the bulk of his story and then

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there was months of

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trading messages and phone calls with me

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asking certain questions to follow up

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get some more additional information

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at the same time i currently have a

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project that's live

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that i'm trying to promote and you know

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and

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hit the ground running with so i still

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couldn't dedicate a ton of creative time

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to it just uh

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it was just more of a data collection at

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that point

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and then we sat down for another long

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form

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discussion and this one might have been

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four hours

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and it was on his turf it was at his

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office

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and that meeting

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even though i got a lot of the same uh

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information about the stories

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what was different this time was the

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emotion

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behind it the trauma behind it that

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wasn't as apparent as before

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and i became as equally jaw-dropped

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by what this man has had to live with

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throughout his entire life and from that

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point on

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it it spun the book out into this wild

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direction neither of us had any idea

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that it was going to go

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and maybe mike can add some some pieces

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no you're doing great keep going now

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uh yeah um yeah so yeah like you said we

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kind of met just through

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professional terms and it was like i

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liked what he was doing with some of his

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other projects

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seemed cool and you know that when he

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approached me and said you know hey do

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you want to do this

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like yeah we can we can figure out

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something we didn't

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even know at that point if it was gonna

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be a book or a documentary or this well

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i didn't know he was pretty much done

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like no i just did a documentary i'm not

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doing another one right now

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um and you know yeah we just

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uh kind of fell into it and

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um but i guess what the listeners

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probably want to know is

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why do you decide to um

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do a book about me and

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like you kind of briefly mentioned real

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quick and nomar kind of

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this has been happening to me as early

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as i can remember about three

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three and a half but there's indications

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uh you know of since infancy

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up until maybe it's about a month now

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but maybe it was only like three weeks

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ago the most recent thing that's

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happened i mean

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when i say a lifetime i mean a lifetime

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it has really been

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my whole life of just this mix of almost

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i don't want to say anything you can

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imagine but it's been pretty

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a pretty good cross-section of what you

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would think is ufo related and some

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stuff that

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leaves you shaking your head going i

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don't even know what to do with that

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um you know um before we get into the

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actual

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uh encounters let me ask this

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mike um do you believe

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that you were singled out for a reason

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uh

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thing

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uh people in your previous family

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uh had uh experiences as well

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do you uh do you have any idea as to

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why you were chosen to experience this

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uh why so much no i don't really have an

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answer as far as it

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uh following a bloodline yes that seems

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to be

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fairly apparent in my um family

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00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:42,079
um everybody's either at least

288
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:44,240
a lot of my earlier experiences started

289
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:46,079
with other family members cousins and

290
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:47,040
this and that

291
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:50,240
um almost everybody in my family has at

292
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,760
least seen a ufo

293
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,440
my great uncle was kicked out of a

294
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,160
private school in the 60s

295
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:58,399
for claiming he was abducted by aliens

296
00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:00,000
and the school said well it's

297
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:02,000
a mental issue or drugs either way we're

298
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:04,720
not equipped to

299
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:07,760
handle it so what that reason is

300
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:09,839
i don't know but yeah it definitely

301
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:11,680
seems like

302
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:14,000
um it's through our bloodline uh it

303
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:16,720
seems to be on my mother's side

304
00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:19,600
and um yeah i couldn't tell you the

305
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:20,480
reason but

306
00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:24,800
i don't think it was by accident at all

307
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:27,519
you know it does seem to work like that

308
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:28,240
uh

309
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,839
i i have talked to many experiencers

310
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:33,600
over the years

311
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:36,800
and uh i i believe that maybe

312
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,040
up to 90 or so uh have had

313
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:43,600
their family experience similar stuff i

314
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:45,040
mean uh

315
00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:46,880
just like david eckhart who's somebody

316
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,600
i've worked with for over a decade his

317
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:52,079
his mother and his sister have also had

318
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:53,600
encounters

319
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:56,399
uh you know it's something that it does

320
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:58,880
seem to work that way

321
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:01,200
so uh yeah that would that would not

322
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:03,040
surprise me at all

323
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:05,600
now you talk about this rh negative

324
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:06,639
blood

325
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:10,399
phenomena which i have found that

326
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:13,760
most of the people that i have talked to

327
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:23,030
experiences also have rh negative blood

328
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,040
so uh i mean no more do you have any

329
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:27,040
ideas on that

330
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:29,120
i i guess i wouldn't say i have any

331
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,160
ideas uh

332
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:32,480
about it like you know a theory about it

333
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:33,519
but what i do know

334
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:35,839
is that it's a common thread much like

335
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:37,200
you know the bloodline

336
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:39,680
and other family members also having

337
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:40,959
experiences

338
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:44,079
it just seems to be a common trait among

339
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:47,199
abductees and again i i don't know why

340
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,279
uh you know there there are some

341
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:51,120
organizations like gaia and things like

342
00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:52,000
that that have

343
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,040
expressed that it is some type of

344
00:13:59,590 --> 00:13:57,600
blood trait that might be

345
00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:59,600
extraterrestrial or maybe hybrid in

346
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:01,199
nature or something like that

347
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:05,360
i i can't speak to that but what i

348
00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:08,399
can speak to is that

349
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:12,399
when mike was a baby in his infancy

350
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:15,519
there was this moment in time where his

351
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:16,720
skin

352
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:19,920
turned completely blue and what we like

353
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:21,440
to do or what i like to do

354
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:24,000
in the book is to present kind of two

355
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,040
different sides

356
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,600
of what might be going on with mike and

357
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:29,199
it's you know it's up to the reader to

358
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:30,079
decide

359
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:32,480
on what's going on so when mike was an

360
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:33,360
infant

361
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,279
his parents found one day that he had

362
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:37,519
turned blue but he was breathing fine

363
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:40,639
he was eating fine but his skin color

364
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,040
was odd so they obviously like parents

365
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:45,360
do they brought him to a doctor

366
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,519
doctor you know was fairly dismissive

367
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:49,440
and said he was probably dehydrated

368
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:50,560
things like that

369
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:53,600
uh they didn't think that was right

370
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:55,839
you know so they got a second opinion

371
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:58,399
and it was kind of more of the same talk

372
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,399
and then sure enough a few hours later

373
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,160
mike's skin came back to

374
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:04,959
a normal skin color and everything was

375
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:05,839
fine

376
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:08,399
uh so maybe the parents were maybe they

377
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,680
were overreacting

378
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:11,760
so in some of the research that i did i

379
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:13,360
found that there are

380
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,240
some reasons reasons in nature for a

381
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:18,079
baby's skin to turn blue

382
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:21,440
and it's actually a medically diagnosed

383
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,360
issue that can happen to some infants

384
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,519
and it's called blue baby syndrome

385
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:28,240
and essentially it has to do with

386
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:29,040
nitrites

387
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:33,680
getting into the baby's uh uh

388
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:36,959
bloodstream and hemoglobin and

389
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:40,480
that can happen uh through uh formula

390
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:44,079
that is mixed with water and

391
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,480
that type of water again according to

392
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,000
the research anyways

393
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:50,880
is not really found everywhere like uh

394
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,480
towns and cities

395
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:55,199
do quite a bit in their water supply for

396
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,279
quality assurance to try to make sure

397
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:59,600
things like these negative nitrites are

398
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:00,320
not

399
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:02,560
in the drinking water of course there is

400
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:04,639
an acceptable amount that they will

401
00:16:07,829 --> 00:16:06,240
allow through or that they just cannot

402
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:07,839
filter out

403
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:11,360
but that happens more in very rural

404
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,839
areas especially places a lot of places

405
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:15,360
that use well water

406
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:17,600
right where mike was born in new

407
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:19,600
hampshire while it is

408
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:22,800
somewhat rural it's not as rural as you

409
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,680
know living up

410
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:26,720
out in the woods and his family at that

411
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:27,199
time

412
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:29,600
had town water they did not have well

413
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,240
water

414
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:32,639
so it didn't it doesn't necessarily make

415
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:33,519
sense that

416
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:36,160
the nitrates would cause mike's skin to

417
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:36,959
turn blue

418
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,920
but it is a possibility on the flip side

419
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:41,600
i did some research for

420
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:44,880
uh if there's been reports of alien

421
00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:46,079
species that do

422
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,639
have blue colored skin or blue tinge

423
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:50,240
skin or something to that

424
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:52,160
effect and of course there's hundreds of

425
00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:53,600
reports you could do a

426
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,440
quick google search right now to anybody

427
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:57,279
listening you know just type in blue

428
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,880
skinned alien and you'll find hundreds

429
00:17:01,670 --> 00:17:00,399
of stories of people who have

430
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:01,680
experienced that

431
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:04,160
and i include some of those anecdotes

432
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:05,839
and i say anecdotes because nobody

433
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:08,240
has any proof pretty much for a lot of

434
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:09,120
this stuff

435
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,839
especially with a blue alien type of

436
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:12,880
thing

437
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:15,600
but in some of the research that i that

438
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:16,160
i did do

439
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:20,240
i did find that a more common trait of

440
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:23,600
someone seeing a blue alien

441
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:26,319
they were in the form of a child now

442
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:27,120
they're worse

443
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,559
there are some adult ones that are

444
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:30,320
reported as well but i was surprised to

445
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,559
find that there was a lot of children

446
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:35,039
and and then that's just how it's

447
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,480
presented in the book

448
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:38,559
could it have been nitrates or could it

449
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:39,760
have been

450
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,679
you know is mike some sort of weird

451
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,760
hybrid you know

452
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,760
we don't know and which one is easier to

453
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:47,600
believe in my opinion

454
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:50,080
in my opinion the nitrites are easier to

455
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,039
believe

456
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:53,120
but that's not what this book is about

457
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:54,480
and that's not what

458
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:56,240
mike has made his life about it's not

459
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:58,720
about what's easier to believe

460
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:01,840
or what we can prove it's about

461
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,640
the witness which is mike and it's about

462
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:06,480
what he's gone through so it's not about

463
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:07,919
proof it's about people

464
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,720
and mike has based his whole granite sky

465
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:12,320
organization foundation

466
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:15,679
on that principle so

467
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:17,600
why don't we start in the beginning with

468
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:20,160
the actual encounters themselves

469
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:22,960
uh tell us what happened and how it

470
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,679
progressed over the years

471
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,600
yeah so i mean the first thing i

472
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:29,520
remember regarding any of this

473
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:32,640
was um i was about three and a half

474
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,760
years old

475
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,200
we were at my grandmother's house in

476
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:37,520
southampton new hampshire

477
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,200
um there was some type of family

478
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:41,039
function going on because

479
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:43,039
everybody was there the aunts uncles

480
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:45,120
cousins and all this stuff

481
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,799
and the way my grandmother's house was

482
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:48,480
set up

483
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:50,080
you'd go in through the front door which

484
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:51,520
brought you into the kitchen

485
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:52,799
and then from the kitchen you kind of

486
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:54,559
had to go through the dining room which

487
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:55,120
kind of

488
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:57,120
was like a pass through which opened up

489
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:59,039
from there you go to the living room

490
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:00,799
to haul the bathroom and the bedrooms

491
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,480
and all this stuff

492
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:04,320
and off that dining room there was a

493
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:06,320
three season porch that overlooked the

494
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:07,760
backyard

495
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,960
and when i cut through the dining room

496
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:12,960
you know past this three season porch

497
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,960
that overlooked the backyard i got this

498
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:15,919
immense

499
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:18,960
calling to get outside um

500
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:21,039
i don't remember how i got outside but i

501
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:24,160
found myself standing in the driveway

502
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:26,720
and i also found my cousin standing out

503
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:27,520
there as well

504
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:30,480
so this is kind of a miracle in itself

505
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,039
like

506
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:33,039
that one of us got through all these

507
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:35,520
adults without being stopped

508
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:37,840
uh never mind that both of us made it up

509
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:38,799
out into the yard

510
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,390
so we're just kind of standing there we

511
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:46,320
don't know why and the next thing you

512
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:48,160
know the woods behind my grandmother's

513
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:48,559
house

514
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:51,280
start glowing almost like there's a

515
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:52,080
forest fire

516
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:55,200
or something there's just this like red

517
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:58,640
amberish glow you know behind all you

518
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:01,600
see is like shadows of trees

519
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:04,880
and eventually this classic

520
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:07,679
saucer object emerges above the tree

521
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,880
line

522
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,200
and starts floating across the lawn

523
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,280
towards us

524
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,679
and it parks itself just to the left of

525
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,280
this big tree that used to be there at

526
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,240
the end of my grandmother's driveway

527
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:22,320
and you know when i said classic saucer

528
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,400
shape you know it was kind of domed at

529
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,480
the top kind of domed at the bottom

530
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:29,280
uh you know in the wide middle and it

531
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:30,080
was probably

532
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:32,960
you know my best estimate about 40 feet

533
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:34,080
wide and half

534
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:37,840
that in height and it just kind of sat

535
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,640
there and we were staring at it watching

536
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:42,400
it and it had this row of lights around

537
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,600
the middle

538
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,039
that kind of it didn't look like

539
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:47,600
individual bulbs it's more like a fluid

540
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,320
type

541
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:51,280
thing but it um you know it was soft

542
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:52,799
white light and it

543
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,640
they changed color a little bit but it

544
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:56,240
wasn't

545
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,720
uh dramatic or anything when all of a

546
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:00,320
sudden that light band

547
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:04,000
changed in intensity and colors it went

548
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:05,679
to a lot more

549
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:08,799
reds and oranges and was flashing a lot

550
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:11,360
more quicker and when that happened

551
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:13,039
almost like when you open your car door

552
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,039
at night like some type of

553
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:17,520
soft interior light like this yellowish

554
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:19,120
light appeared

555
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:22,240
above that center row which kind of

556
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:25,520
gave the outline of a row of windows

557
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:27,440
above that center bar

558
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:29,039
and when that came on you couldn't make

559
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:31,760
out any features but you could see like

560
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:35,440
humanoid um shadows or silhouettes of

561
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:35,919
just like

562
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:38,720
shoulders and heads and at this point

563
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,320
there's just a really

564
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:42,240
really intense feeling of like when you

565
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:44,960
know somebody's watching you but it

566
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:46,880
it is more so than that it was kind of

567
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,280
more primal it's kind of like

568
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:51,200
what if a bear or something's got you

569
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:53,120
cornered like you know this is a bad

570
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:54,720
situation even though you don't know

571
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:57,840
what the situation is yet

572
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:01,840
and then in my standing memory

573
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:04,240
there was a blank uh the next thing i

574
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:05,280
know

575
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,440
this object is at the other end of the

576
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:09,679
driveway by the road

577
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,720
hovering above a telephone pole

578
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,640
it kind of sits there for a minute and

579
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:16,159
then it shoots off

580
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:18,080
into the sky and kind of just disappears

581
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:20,080
into a dot in like the blink of an eye

582
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:22,400
and that was my standing memory the

583
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:24,840
first time anything like this had ever

584
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,080
happened

585
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:28,720
did uh now your cousin was with you you

586
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:29,600
said

587
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:32,559
yeah and she's only uh six months older

588
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:33,919
than i am so we're both

589
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:36,159
like really young there's no way they

590
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:39,360
would have let us both out of the house

591
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:43,760
did um did anybody else in your family

592
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,720
see anything or sense anything that

593
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:48,480
night not that i'm aware of

594
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,200
um okay it's kind of one of those things

595
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:53,600
i grew up in this household where

596
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,360
they adult like my mother my aunts and

597
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:57,120
all them they'd always grown up

598
00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:00,000
in haunted houses ghosts were free range

599
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:02,720
you could talk about ghosts all day long

600
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:06,000
nobody talked about ufos right

601
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:08,799
even as me and my cousin grew up you

602
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:10,000
know

603
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:12,880
we'd be like oh remember the ufo we saw

604
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:13,440
yep

605
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:15,280
and then that was it it was a surface

606
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:16,799
conversation

607
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:18,640
and the rest of the family was kind of

608
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:20,799
like that as well like yeah they saw ufo

609
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:23,600
under discussion you know nobody really

610
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:25,440
talked about it

611
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:28,240
it was like my mid-20s i i went back for

612
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,200
a regression

613
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:30,960
for that incident to try to kind of fill

614
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:32,799
in the middle a little bit

615
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,960
um i didn't get all the details there

616
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:36,640
was still a lot of fear involved

617
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:40,159
but that's when it became um

618
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:43,600
a little more clear that the visit

619
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:46,720
was intentional um you know it wasn't an

620
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:48,159
accident we weren't at the wrong

621
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:49,919
place at the wrong time or anything like

622
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:51,200
that

623
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:55,520
wasn't the first time

624
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:59,600
as well um which was a little odd but so

625
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:01,360
after i did that regression i

626
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:03,279
i was just starting to kind of come to

627
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:05,279
terms with this myself

628
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,720
not just this but everything that

629
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,400
happened up to this point around you

630
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:10,640
know 25

631
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:14,080
and starting to get to the point where i

632
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:17,679
had to admit it to myself this was real

633
00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:19,919
and so i this was fresh on my mind so i

634
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:21,440
called my cousin to see what she

635
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,279
remembered

636
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,840
and i said you remember the ufo you know

637
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,520
we saw when we were kids

638
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:29,600
i'm like i need you to tell me what you

639
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:30,840
remember and then i'll tell you what i

640
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:32,240
remember

641
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:34,320
and she started telling me and the

642
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:35,760
minute she started telling me i

643
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:36,880
remembered

644
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:40,400
but it was a totally different incident

645
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:41,039
and again

646
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:44,640
it was at my grandmother's house

647
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:46,799
she had my grandmother's big wrap around

648
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,840
porch and

649
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:49,919
it was basically storage and it was like

650
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,679
a treasure trove for us kids to go out

651
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:53,200
and play on

652
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,190
doing whatever one night and the

653
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,600
neighbor not across the street but

654
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,760
on the same side of the street

655
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:05,600
overlooking their backyard this

656
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:09,360
red light came into the sky and started

657
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:11,520
doing i call it dancing because i don't

658
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:13,039
know what else to call it like

659
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:15,679
circles figure eights there's no way it

660
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:16,559
was a modern

661
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:19,120
you know any type of aircraft that we

662
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:20,000
know of now

663
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:23,279
and drones weren't a thing back then

664
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:26,320
and that's what she remembered

665
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:27,840
and i remembered it when she started

666
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:29,760
telling me and i was like

667
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:32,559
i my memory tells me we're older than

668
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:33,840
that

669
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:37,679
them you know the three-year-old version

670
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:40,960
um so then i told her what i remembered

671
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,480
she didn't have recall of that

672
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:47,279
but you know it's interesting i i know

673
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:47,919
that

674
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:50,559
a lot of times when people have these

675
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:53,120
experiences

676
00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:56,320
they from in most part though they won't

677
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:57,840
recall something until

678
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:01,760
much much later uh they they won't even

679
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:04,640
realize they had lost time

680
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,679
or what happened at whatever location

681
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:09,360
they went to

682
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:11,840
was that your case i mean did the

683
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:13,760
regression actually help you

684
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:16,240
or did you start remembering more as

685
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:17,919
time went on

686
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,760
uh a little of both like i remembered

687
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:23,840
everything except that middle gap before

688
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:26,240
the regression

689
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:30,240
you know ever since it happened

690
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:33,279
it did fill in some gaps and once i got

691
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:34,960
to that point

692
00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:37,919
where i was consciously not trying to

693
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:39,520
forget this stuff i guess is a good way

694
00:26:42,789 --> 00:26:40,559
to put it

695
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:42,799
yeah more stuff did start flooding in

696
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,720
and

697
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,279
the more i was open to it the more

698
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:48,880
something weird would hit you

699
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:51,679
like i didn't i started out like very

700
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,159
much

701
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:54,880
you know aliens are bad this and that

702
00:26:56,789 --> 00:26:55,200
like

703
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,799
all these people who are talking oh

704
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:58,640
about good aliens and this and that they

705
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:59,039
can

706
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,640
you know throw it right out the window

707
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:02,320
like no that's not my

708
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:05,520
experience and the more i just started

709
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:06,159
really being

710
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,000
open to the whole thing i i kind of

711
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:10,080
started realizing

712
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:12,080
i'm only looking at it through my

713
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:13,200
perception

714
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,640
and there's probably a lot of this i

715
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:17,279
don't understand which is still true

716
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,960
but um has probably a great bigger

717
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:21,919
picture that i'm

718
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:26,399
taking in um

719
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:29,279
so as far as the beings that you

720
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:30,559
encountered

721
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:33,440
can you give us some descriptions of

722
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:35,840
what they looked like how they acted

723
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:39,360
how they treated you yeah

724
00:27:45,669 --> 00:27:43,039
um so

725
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:45,679
for the most part i've dealt with a lot

726
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:47,039
of

727
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:51,039
i guess i'd say archaeal type

728
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:54,240
grays i and what i mean by that is

729
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:57,520
you know the elongated big head the big

730
00:28:02,230 --> 00:27:58,720
eyes but they've

731
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,240
um come in a lot of demeanors i've seen

732
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:04,399
some what you'd call regular grays some

733
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,080
have been a darker brown

734
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:09,360
and a little bit taller

735
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:11,840
i had an experience we ended up actually

736
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:13,200
moving into the house next to my

737
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:14,480
grandmother's

738
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,360
when i was living there um i had

739
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:19,679
encounters

740
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:22,240
for almost like a schooling type

741
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:23,200
situation

742
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:26,159
for what best we can estimate about nine

743
00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:27,360
months with

744
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:29,120
again they looked like that gray

745
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:31,279
archaeal type but they were

746
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:33,679
almost more porcelain white softer

747
00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:43,430
on one occasion

748
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:46,870
some of the like five foot

749
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:50,159
tallish uh browner darker brown or grays

750
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:52,240
type whatever you want to call them

751
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:55,039
things were walking me up a driveway

752
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:58,559
and i heard like this if they talk to

753
00:29:03,669 --> 00:28:58,960
you

754
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:03,679
them talk to each other in this occasion

755
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:04,559
as they were

756
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:07,679
escorting me up the driveway i heard one

757
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:09,520
of them say to the other don't let them

758
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:10,240
turn around

759
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:12,080
and when you hear that your first

760
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:13,360
instinct is to

761
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:16,240
turn around and i when i did there was

762
00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:16,720
almost

763
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:18,799
i call it the like creature the black

764
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:19,840
lagoon there was

765
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:22,000
it's pretty similar to that except had

766
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:24,320
more cat-like eyes

767
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:27,840
like creeping behind a tree um

768
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:31,200
i've had some like troll type looking

769
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:34,960
um things short three foot

770
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:38,000
uh again the big black almond shaped

771
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:41,200
eyes um you know that's been the

772
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:45,200
bigger part is that type of

773
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:48,320
uh creature or being

774
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:52,320
for lack of a better word right

775
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:55,200
more holographic versions of them that

776
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:56,480
were bluer

777
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:59,440
on a couple occasions but that's been

778
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:01,200
the main type for my

779
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:06,000
experiences did uh um

780
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:07,840
now when they communicated now when you

781
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:10,559
heard them communicate among themselves

782
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:13,440
and or if they communicated with you

783
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:15,679
what was it done telepathically

784
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:19,200
voice or and did they speak in english

785
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:21,120
or was it something that at the time you

786
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:23,440
just understood

787
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,080
uh that's a really good question it was

788
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:28,080
always telepathically

789
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:30,000
whether it's english or not or i just

790
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,440
understood is a

791
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:33,679
really great question to me it sounded

792
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,799
like english but um

793
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,240
yeah i never really thought about it

794
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:43,350
yeah that's something that i've i've

795
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:45,200
dealt with with other experiences well

796
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:47,360
i've been abducted myself so

797
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:49,600
it seemed that they communicated with me

798
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:50,799
telepathically but

799
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:52,559
you know i did understand what they were

800
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:54,000
talking about

801
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:57,120
uh and most others who i've talked to

802
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,640
said the same thing

803
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:01,360
now there have been instances where some

804
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:02,880
of these beings and

805
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:05,760
i'm talking maybe higher order beings

806
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:06,799
would actually

807
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:10,960
speak voice wise in english

808
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,080
uh from what i have been told so i was

809
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,399
just curious as to what you know how you

810
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,320
understood them oh yeah

811
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:20,559
audibly i never i i don't think i've

812
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:22,159
ever understood it

813
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:24,000
yeah i've never heard them speak to me

814
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:25,200
audibly like we would

815
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:31,350
so i know mara when you started hearing

816
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:32,720
this story from mike

817
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,320
what were your thoughts did it sound

818
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:36,000
like anything close

819
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:39,039
to what you had heard in previously

820
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:42,240
uh definitely but only in parts

821
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:45,039
you know some of those common themes you

822
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:46,399
know uh

823
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,000
like i was abducted but i don't really

824
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:50,320
remember a lot of it you know

825
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:52,720
things like that that you commonly hear

826
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:54,640
from from abductees

827
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:57,440
but what really got me about mike's

828
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:58,640
story were

829
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:01,600
all the things that i had never heard

830
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:02,320
before

831
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:05,120
you know he's got stories where as a

832
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:05,919
child

833
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,760
for some reason he decided to get up and

834
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:09,120
look out a window

835
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:12,640
and there's like these five short troll

836
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:16,080
looking creatures there and

837
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:18,240
they they they're all holding spade

838
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:20,399
shovels and they've dug this perfectly

839
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:21,360
round

840
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:28,000
as mike is telling me this uh he's also

841
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:30,159
uh trying to articulate it to himself

842
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,240
like that actually might have been

843
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,640
a screen memory like it seems like maybe

844
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:36,720
more had been happening but this is

845
00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:38,559
as much as they were going to let me see

846
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:40,559
or this is the version of it that

847
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,320
i'm allowed to see and that actually

848
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,159
became kind of a running theme

849
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:47,039
within mike's narrative uh like him

850
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:47,519
being

851
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:50,559
aware enough uh that he was probably

852
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:51,600
remembering

853
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:53,679
some screen memories which were still

854
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:56,159
odd in and of themselves uh

855
00:33:02,789 --> 00:32:59,440
he has some other screen memories of uh

856
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:02,799
seeing uh white uh albino deer

857
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:04,559
like two of them scene one is rare

858
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,440
especially in our area but scene two

859
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:10,240
next to each other is obviously odd

860
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:11,679
there's been other weird

861
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:14,720
animal things that have happened and you

862
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:16,880
know that can be

863
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:19,440
some common threads with some abductees

864
00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:20,640
when you get into mike's

865
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:22,640
details they're they're certainly

866
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,000
strange he had this one experience where

867
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:29,200
there was this holographic image

868
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,960
of a gray alien's face in his bedroom

869
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:34,960
window which was on the second floor

870
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:38,080
the face took up the entire window and

871
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:38,720
again it

872
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,720
kind of looked like a hologram and then

873
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:42,480
all of a sudden a blue jay

874
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:46,559
out of nowhere smacked into the window

875
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:50,559
and hearing that i immediately thought

876
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,679
what is the significance of a blue jay

877
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:56,080
and so in in doing some research about

878
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,159
you know blue jays in particular

879
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:01,200
people who see them a lot or maybe

880
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:03,120
find themselves like a kindred spirit

881
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:04,240
with a blue jay

882
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:06,960
has a lot to do with things that are

883
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:07,519
kind

884
00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:10,159
and not negative and i think some of

885
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:11,919
that might have been feeding mike's

886
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,800
subconscious

887
00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:15,200
for when he got older like maybe these

888
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:16,720
haven't all been

889
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:20,399
negative experiences maybe there is

890
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:23,040
you know a reason to all this no idea

891
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:24,399
what the reason is but

892
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:26,399
but maybe it's not as malevolent as as

893
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:27,679
he had thought

894
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:30,320
yeah you know i did see in the book

895
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:32,879
where you had talked to mike cleland

896
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:35,200
and uh i have talked to mike on several

897
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:37,440
occasions because

898
00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:40,879
for about a year i had been experiencing

899
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:43,119
a lot of references and sightings of

900
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:44,240
owls

901
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:46,399
uh for that one year period and that was

902
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:48,320
the same year period

903
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:51,119
uh in which my wife was sick and she

904
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:52,879
also passed away

905
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:56,159
but i had also been having encounters

906
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:58,320
with these tall white beings

907
00:35:03,670 --> 00:35:01,680
and i had the one abduction

908
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:03,680
but these it would be the interesting

909
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:06,720
part was there was always this reference

910
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:09,200
to owls i would seat owls i would hear

911
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:10,480
about owls

912
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:12,320
then i would actually see them and in

913
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:14,800
fact uh

914
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:18,000
my associate butch wikowski he and i had

915
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:19,680
talked about it because

916
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:22,240
i was i was telling him about it and we

917
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,400
had no idea

918
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:26,480
why this was going on then of course

919
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,920
when i talked to mike he

920
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,000
you know his story is pretty well known

921
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:32,160
about the reference to the owls

922
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:35,119
and possible alien references and it

923
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:36,560
seems you had something

924
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:43,190
yeah it almost worked in the opposite

925
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:44,000
way though

926
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:45,760
like you know because omar looked it up

927
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:47,280
and it was supposed to be about like hey

928
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:49,440
this isn't all bad and it's like

929
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:52,560
i developed a phobia i'm not a small guy

930
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:54,960
i am six foot you know

931
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:58,640
i have even now i am terrified of

932
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:00,400
songbirds like i can watch them through

933
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:02,480
a window if they get too close to me i

934
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:02,800
will

935
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:05,200
flip out people think it's funny when

936
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:06,079
they see

937
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:08,320
like me have a heart attack over a

938
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:10,400
chickadee landing next to my foot

939
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,960
but i'm fine with i'm fine with owls

940
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:14,240
raptors eagle

941
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,839
like things that really could tear my

942
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:17,680
face off i'm okay with

943
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:21,040
but i've had a lot of encounters um

944
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:24,079
i think maybe because of that phobia

945
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:27,359
with deer but i do have i'm in the woods

946
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:29,200
a lot so sometimes it's hard to tell

947
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:31,280
like sometimes now it's just now

948
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:32,320
sometimes it's not

949
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:35,440
but i have one stretch of road days to

950
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:36,640
travel where

951
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:40,720
it was where i saw the two white deer um

952
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:43,119
within like a quarter mile of everything

953
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:43,760
a

954
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:51,760
world

955
00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:53,599
swoop down in front of the car where i

956
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,839
had to and it was the same

957
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,680
area where i saw i don't even want to

958
00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:00,000
call it a craft it looked craft shaped

959
00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:01,920
but it was more of like a plasma just

960
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:05,440
glowing white light in the sky

961
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,560
um and this all happened

962
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:10,800
you know within a quarter mile of each

963
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:12,800
other in the same stretch of road

964
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:16,000
um yeah it does seem that these

965
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:20,240
owls are uh like a precursor to an

966
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:21,760
actual

967
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:25,119
event um now are they controlled by

968
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:27,520
these alien beings or

969
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:29,200
you know what's the thing maybe that's

970
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:30,880
the same thing with the deer with you

971
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:33,920
they were some type of precursor

972
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,040
to warn you or to uh

973
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:39,200
you know get you ready for what was

974
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:40,240
coming yeah

975
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:42,000
that's what i was thinking it's it's all

976
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:43,760
like a pre

977
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,000
screen memory or something to be like

978
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,560
okay in your lucid state

979
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:50,800
you'll experience this and then once

980
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,599
you're

981
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:53,440
you know after what happens and then

982
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:56,000
once you become lucid again

983
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:58,720
you know you'll still remember the the

984
00:38:01,990 --> 00:38:00,560
animal the the thing that you can wrap

985
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:02,000
your mind around it it's

986
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:05,119
interesting to theorize yeah i i know in

987
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:06,000
my case

988
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:09,280
it was uh i had been seeing these owls

989
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,640
uh but it was more that i was getting

990
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:14,640
references al's and

991
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:17,280
which was interesting it was in november

992
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:18,560
and i uh

993
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,599
and my wife had just passed away

994
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:23,839
and uh my son and i were coming home

995
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:24,960
from the hospital

996
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:29,200
it was uh it was at night and

997
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,960
i heard this hoot or the house sound

998
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:34,160
coming from outside

999
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:37,200
my apartment i never seen an owl there

1000
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:38,560
before

1001
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:40,800
but this owl was sitting in the tree

1002
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:43,040
right in front of my apartment

1003
00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:46,320
and uh it was there for about an hour

1004
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:48,560
then it it was gone and i hadn't had an

1005
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:49,760
owl reference

1006
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:52,880
or seen it now since then so

1007
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:56,160
my theory is that during the time that

1008
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:57,440
she was sick

1009
00:39:01,270 --> 00:39:00,480
that they were possibly trying to tell

1010
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:01,280
me

1011
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:06,240
her or whatever and that these

1012
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,359
these owls were some type of uh

1013
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:11,359
oh i don't know sentries or something

1014
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,160
that were just keeping an eye on me but

1015
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:17,359
that's that's the only um that

1016
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:19,280
that's the only thing that i can come up

1017
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:20,880
with that now the fact that you know

1018
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:22,720
i've talked to mike and now what you're

1019
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,400
telling me

1020
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:27,680
it does seem that these are some type of

1021
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:29,599
warning or precursors

1022
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:32,640
to be ready for something to occur

1023
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:35,359
yeah and i mean i i think this is my

1024
00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:37,839
problem with ufology that they're so

1025
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:40,320
focused on the you know nuts and bolts

1026
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:43,280
aspect of it when you start talking to

1027
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,480
people who've actually had the

1028
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:46,160
experiences

1029
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:49,280
it dwells into other stuff like

1030
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:51,920
if you didn't know somebody had a you

1031
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:53,599
know ufo experience you'd be like oh

1032
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:55,680
that's paranormal that's a spirit guide

1033
00:39:59,030 --> 00:39:57,200
that's this that's that

1034
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,040
it's all the same stuff we're just

1035
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:01,440
looking at at different angles but

1036
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:04,640
this yeah this whole i don't know what

1037
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:06,960
the right term is spiritual side of it i

1038
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:08,000
guess

1039
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,200
of you know ufology

1040
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:13,760
is there just nobody wants to look at it

1041
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:14,560
you know

1042
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:19,119
there's other cases not particularly in

1043
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:20,160
mind but

1044
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,400
where you know people have followed what

1045
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:24,480
they thought was a recently

1046
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:26,800
uh deceased loved one out into the woods

1047
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,560
and then had an abduction

1048
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:31,200
i'm not saying they're the exact same as

1049
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:32,960
ghost spirits or whatever turn you on a

1050
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:33,599
column

1051
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:35,520
but they can definitely operate around

1052
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:37,520
those same lines i think they're around

1053
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:38,000
us all

1054
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:39,599
the time whether we see a light in the

1055
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,280
sky or not yeah

1056
00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:44,160
i believe that as well and in fact i do

1057
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,560
believe

1058
00:40:48,309 --> 00:40:46,800
a lot of the phenomena that people

1059
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:48,319
experience

1060
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:51,760
be it ghosts or you know any other type

1061
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:52,160
of

1062
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:55,839
uh strange unexplained encounter

1063
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:58,319
i i think they're they're very well made

1064
00:41:03,349 --> 00:41:00,319
a connection between these different

1065
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:03,359
genres of the paranormal and i think in

1066
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:03,680
this

1067
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:06,319
instance it that may very well be and in

1068
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:07,040
fact

1069
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,720
now you were talking about the the

1070
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,720
reporting agencies or the groups like

1071
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:11,920
mufon and stuff

1072
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,040
they really do not recognize that

1073
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:17,440
uh it you know i have talked to

1074
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:20,560
experiencers where they have contact and

1075
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:21,760
move on

1076
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:25,200
our new fork or some other group

1077
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:28,319
and they're just basically ignored

1078
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:31,040
and uh or worse laughed at yeah are

1079
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:31,760
laughed at

1080
00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:35,680
and that that has happened so many times

1081
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,599
you know it's uh it's almost like a

1082
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:39,040
running joke now

1083
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:42,480
basically with with these uh ufo

1084
00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:45,920
uh organizations because they just

1085
00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:48,560
really don't seem to be

1086
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:51,839
cognizant of what's actually going on

1087
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,599
or what you're worried about is the

1088
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:55,920
light phenomena or some kind of craft or

1089
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,800
something

1090
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:59,520
like you said nuts and bolts right which

1091
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:01,520
i i don't get at all

1092
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:04,079
like if you want to be a nuts and bolts

1093
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:05,359
researcher be one

1094
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:08,240
but unless the problem is unless you see

1095
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:09,920
it yourself you have to rely on the

1096
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:12,079
experiences of the eyewitnesses

1097
00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:13,280
but then you make fun of the

1098
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:15,680
eyewitnesses or the you know

1099
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:19,040
witnesses if they don't tell you exactly

1100
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,560
what you want to say if it's not the

1101
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:22,560
cookie cutter story

1102
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:26,160
so eventually you know it's the same

1103
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:28,240
rhetoric round and round and round

1104
00:42:31,829 --> 00:42:30,319
until one of those researchers actually

1105
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:31,839
sees something for themselves

1106
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:34,319
and then they no longer a researcher

1107
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:35,760
they're an experiencer

1108
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:37,599
that's right you know it's looks like

1109
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:40,160
skeptics of any type of phenomena

1110
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:42,720
you know they're talking a good game

1111
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:44,079
until it happens to them

1112
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:47,040
then they're true believers and uh you

1113
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:47,760
know

1114
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:50,560
i've seen it happen many times yeah

1115
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:51,119
often

1116
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:52,800
and i'd like to add on to that a little

1117
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:54,560
bit like whether you're

1118
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:56,960
a nuts and bolts uh researcher or

1119
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,079
investigator

1120
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,000
uh or you're on the more spiritual or

1121
00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:02,160
philosophical side or anywhere in

1122
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:03,280
between

1123
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:07,920
if you handle the witness as you would

1124
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:09,440
you know somebody in your family a

1125
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:11,520
friend meaning you're just handling the

1126
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:13,200
witness with kindness

1127
00:43:17,270 --> 00:43:15,359
regardless of what they're telling you

1128
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:17,280
whether and again it doesn't matter what

1129
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:18,720
your angle is nuts and bolts are

1130
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:19,920
philosophical

1131
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:22,400
if you handle them with kindness and an

1132
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:23,040
open

1133
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:25,200
non-judgmental mind doesn't mean you

1134
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:26,880
believe them 100 percent

1135
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:28,640
but if you're just open-minded enough to

1136
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:31,040
listen to them and show them kindness

1137
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:34,720
that's that's okay if you're a nuts and

1138
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:35,280
bolts

1139
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,359
researcher as long as you handle the

1140
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:39,280
witness as delicately

1141
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:42,960
as possible a lot of these witnesses are

1142
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:46,560
experiencing ptsd from these encounters

1143
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:49,760
and when we laugh at them or don't treat

1144
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:51,920
the the weirder parts of their

1145
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,040
experiences

1146
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,280
with the same amount of kindness as the

1147
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:57,119
nuts and bolts aspect i think that's

1148
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,680
where

1149
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:59,520
you lose a lot of people and i also

1150
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:00,960
think that's where your

1151
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:04,319
research and investigation lacks

1152
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:06,160
and you won't get all the proper

1153
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:07,760
information that you need

1154
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:10,880
it's not hard to be kind to somebody

1155
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:12,720
but for some people i guess it is and i

1156
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:14,640
i just don't relate to that in any way

1157
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:16,720
you know i agree with you i mean uh you

1158
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:18,079
know i take any

1159
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:21,680
report i get uh and give the witness the

1160
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:22,079
benefit

1161
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:24,160
of the doubt because look their their

1162
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:26,560
experience is being shared with you

1163
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:29,599
now you become part of their experience

1164
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:34,079
yeah it's up to you to you know actually

1165
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:37,200
help them to understand what may be

1166
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:37,920
going on

1167
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,560
instead of ridiculing the experience

1168
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:43,200
itself and you talk about ps you know

1169
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:46,640
ptsd absolutely there isn't there is a

1170
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,040
cause and effect with any of these

1171
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:51,839
type of experiences absolutely and it's

1172
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:52,319
just like

1173
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:54,160
any life experience you get in a really

1174
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:55,599
horrible car accident

1175
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:57,520
through no fault of your own or even if

1176
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,720
it was your fault

1177
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:01,200
there is going to be a traumatic effect

1178
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:02,319
on your brain

1179
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,960
the same thing is happening uh with all

1180
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:06,480
these encounters and

1181
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,319
somebody that was in a car accident you

1182
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:10,400
wouldn't start ridiculing them

1183
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:12,800
you know if they said well you know and

1184
00:45:17,109 --> 00:45:15,040
they started getting philosophical about

1185
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:17,119
their their car accident experience you

1186
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:18,720
know i was really scared

1187
00:45:22,870 --> 00:45:21,280
uh i i i you know i felt so alone until

1188
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:22,880
the police arrived until there were more

1189
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:24,240
people on scene you know something like

1190
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:25,440
that

1191
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,400
instead of a nuts and bolts person may

1192
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,319
ask some more difficult questions and

1193
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:32,880
not have as much kindness you know

1194
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,680
yeah i have found that i have found that

1195
00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:37,200
to be the the

1196
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:40,240
main sticking point with all these uh

1197
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:41,359
ufo groups

1198
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,760
is that they're uh you know they have

1199
00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:44,880
their protocol

1200
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:48,560
and that protocol is you know very stiff

1201
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,560
very you know very

1202
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:54,880
i don't know organizational it's put it

1203
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:55,760
that way

1204
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,560
sure yeah they don't like new ideas

1205
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,480
coming in

1206
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:02,400
no and it's been that way for the

1207
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:03,680
longest time

1208
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:05,520
you know what were you supposed to do as

1209
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:07,200
an experiencer you reported

1210
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:10,160
somebody and a lot of this was based off

1211
00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:11,839
the betty and barney hill case

1212
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,359
absolutely you know they said you know

1213
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:17,440
well if you don't meet these markers

1214
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:18,400
your case can't

1215
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:20,800
be real but if your case did meet those

1216
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,640
markers well you're copying

1217
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,480
so it's still not real like it was a

1218
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:26,240
double-edged sword you couldn't win for

1219
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:27,520
trying

1220
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:30,000
and you know most of these people didn't

1221
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,520
want their names out there they weren't

1222
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:33,440
looking for fame they weren't looking

1223
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,160
for

1224
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:36,640
any of this they just wanted to be heard

1225
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:37,680
and

1226
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:41,200
that that's where ufologies failed right

1227
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:43,599
you know obviously i was young when

1228
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:45,359
benny and barty hill had their encounter

1229
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:46,000
or when

1230
00:46:50,069 --> 00:46:47,839
let's put it this way when it started

1231
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,079
coming out into the mainstream

1232
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:52,400
uh you know and that didn't happen until

1233
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:54,240
several years afterwards

1234
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,920
right but of course you know they went

1235
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:58,079
through a lot and uh

1236
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,000
you know not the not only the fact that

1237
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,240
they were a mixed-race couple

1238
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:04,079
they also had to put up with a lot of

1239
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:05,359
other

1240
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,240
doubters and uh you know they they

1241
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:10,480
suffered a lifetime of that i mean

1242
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:13,440
i uh you know i can you know i've talked

1243
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:14,640
to katherine

1244
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:17,119
i mean kathleen about it and she

1245
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,560
kathleen martin

1246
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:20,559
and uh you know of course she wrote the

1247
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,040
book and she was betty's niece

1248
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:25,839
and uh yeah they did they they did

1249
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:27,119
suffer through a lot of

1250
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:31,599
criticism but you know

1251
00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:34,720
their case was known now you know

1252
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:36,720
but it still goes on you know people

1253
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:38,800
that have these experiences

1254
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,839
still suffer from the criticism and i i

1255
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:43,200
just believe if

1256
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:46,160
really if it wasn't for independent

1257
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:48,559
researchers investigators

1258
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,079
away from the large ufo community

1259
00:47:57,030 --> 00:47:54,720
that this is the only way that these

1260
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:57,040
stories are getting out

1261
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:58,800
and i think i'd also like to put in

1262
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:00,400
there that i do believe

1263
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:03,040
nuts and bolts has its place because

1264
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:04,800
there there is an understanding that i

1265
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:06,960
would love to have about what these

1266
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:09,520
vehicles are are you know are they

1267
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:11,440
spaceships are they extraterrestrial or

1268
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:12,640
are they not you know

1269
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:15,680
uh it does have its place but in regards

1270
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:17,680
to these ufo organizations

1271
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:20,319
like the debacle of mufon and what it's

1272
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:20,800
become

1273
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:22,880
especially since jan you know jan's

1274
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:23,920
whole

1275
00:48:28,150 --> 00:48:26,880
bs which is which is disgusting i think

1276
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:28,160
the only way

1277
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:30,160
that they should come back in my opinion

1278
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:31,839
and you know who cares what my opinion

1279
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:32,800
is but

1280
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:34,319
the only way they should come back is to

1281
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,480
just be a database

1282
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,400
you know and get away from these dumb

1283
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:40,000
conferences and all this stuff

1284
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:42,000
and and just be a database and i think

1285
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:43,839
that's part of what davenport

1286
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,559
is maybe doing right is is to just

1287
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:48,000
collect these cases i don't

1288
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,359
think there should be a dismissing of

1289
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:51,599
the stranger ones but just to be

1290
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:54,720
a collection point is a good place

1291
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:57,200
or is good thing for those organizations

1292
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:58,160
to be

1293
00:49:01,510 --> 00:49:00,640
and then investigations or research can

1294
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:01,520
happen

1295
00:49:04,630 --> 00:49:03,280
uh from the people that have a passion

1296
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:04,640
for it you know

1297
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:07,920
i don't know and you're davenport's

1298
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:09,760
not perfect but yeah it's definitely

1299
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:11,680
better than mufon but that's all it

1300
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:12,240
should be

1301
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,680
if you you're gonna send field

1302
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:15,440
investigators out

1303
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:17,839
let them come out but you you're not

1304
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:18,800
judging jury

1305
00:49:22,950 --> 00:49:20,640
you weren't there you don't get to

1306
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:22,960
decide what this person went through

1307
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:24,640
especially when you approach them with

1308
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:26,880
that attitude you're not going to get

1309
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:27,920
the whole truth

1310
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:30,559
not in one shot not in two shots you

1311
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:31,599
know

1312
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:36,720
nomar who i trust in my life

1313
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:38,400
he doesn't know everything about my

1314
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:40,640
story even though he wrote this book

1315
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:42,480
you know there's stuff i left out that

1316
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:44,079
is so personal to me

1317
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:47,359
that i won't share with anybody not even

1318
00:49:49,589 --> 00:49:47,680
him

1319
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:49,599
at this point you know maybe someday but

1320
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:55,910
and i understand that i'm winning that

1321
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:56,880
completely

1322
00:50:02,230 --> 00:50:00,079
and when you go in with this i'm the

1323
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:02,240
authority on ufos tell me everything you

1324
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:03,599
know you're not going to get

1325
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:05,040
anything out of this person they're

1326
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:06,559
going to shut down and tell you the bare

1327
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:07,359
minimum

1328
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:10,800
yeah you know well you know

1329
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:14,640
you know we uh this uh wing humanoid

1330
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,359
uh phenomena that's been going on in

1331
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:19,440
around chicago around lake michigan for

1332
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:20,160
the past

1333
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:23,760
four years or so uh you know mufon did

1334
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:25,040
get the original

1335
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:28,079
exciting yeah yeah and

1336
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:31,040
you know they basically ignored it until

1337
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:32,720
we started getting into it and started

1338
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,760
investigating

1339
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:35,680
then we start getting pushback but you

1340
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:36,800
know i those

1341
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:40,480
those cases that they did look at and

1342
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:42,880
some of the more recent cases around the

1343
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:45,760
airport itself

1344
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,200
they they flustered the witnesses so bad

1345
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,599
that they literally cut off with them

1346
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:53,440
and contacted us

1347
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:56,240
that's too bad yeah that has yeah i've

1348
00:50:59,670 --> 00:50:57,680
talked to so many people

1349
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:59,680
their first question is are you

1350
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:01,280
affiliated with mufon

1351
00:51:04,870 --> 00:51:03,760
and i say no no good i can talk to you

1352
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:04,880
yeah

1353
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:08,000
right right well i

1354
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:11,680
i tell you this um you did mention the

1355
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:12,400
krri

1356
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:14,640
research center for consciousness i do

1357
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,720
believe that they no longer exist

1358
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:18,720
exactly yeah we are now defunct

1359
00:51:22,230 --> 00:51:21,440
um we hope to get restarted again it

1360
00:51:25,510 --> 00:51:22,240
became a

1361
00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:25,520
rent issue and we lost the building and

1362
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:27,440
you know we kind of went our separate

1363
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:28,960
ways we're all still doing our little

1364
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:31,200
meetings here and there and then kovit

1365
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:31,599
hit

1366
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:36,079
and it's yeah it's been a disaster but

1367
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:39,760
well um you now with grands

1368
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,440
grand skies.org you um

1369
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:45,359
you and i looked at the website you do

1370
00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:47,040
try to help experiences

1371
00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:49,599
it's something very similar to what i do

1372
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:51,599
uh what's your process what do you

1373
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:56,000
how do you do this it really depends

1374
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:58,880
on the individual um you know because i

1375
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:00,960
don't think this is

1376
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:04,079
a topic you can have like a standard

1377
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:06,640
format on right right um it depends on

1378
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:08,559
where the person comes in

1379
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:10,559
and where they are with the experiences

1380
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:12,480
like somebody could be like me and have

1381
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:14,319
a lifetime of experience and be like

1382
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:15,680
yeah i'm kind of okay with it i just

1383
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:17,119
want to talk about it

1384
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:20,400
and some people could just see a ufo

1385
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:22,319
like close up no it's not a late in the

1386
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:24,319
sky like an actual craft

1387
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:26,559
and have their whole world view shook in

1388
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:28,559
like holy crap this stuff is real it's

1389
00:52:31,829 --> 00:52:29,760
not supposed to be real

1390
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:31,839
and still have the almost same level of

1391
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,880
trauma so

1392
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:34,880
you have to take everybody individually

1393
00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:37,040
and see where they are and i mean

1394
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,319
my basic game plan is i

1395
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:42,960
i kind of try to get a feel for them let

1396
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:43,599
them

1397
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:46,160
see what they're willing to say up front

1398
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:47,280
and then

1399
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:49,920
i'll share what i you know a little bit

1400
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:51,599
in mind to make them comfortable and

1401
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:53,280
then they'll share a little bit back and

1402
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:54,160
then i'll share

1403
00:53:00,309 --> 00:52:57,520
you know just it's most it's like

1404
00:53:01,349 --> 00:53:00,319
i don't have clients i make friends is

1405
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:01,359
all i do

1406
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:04,800
right you know it's how any friendship

1407
00:53:07,589 --> 00:53:05,920
works you

1408
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:07,599
you you don't know where the trust

1409
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:09,200
lining is so you just

1410
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,880
you just keep being there for them and

1411
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:12,960
then it's amazing because

1412
00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:14,400
they're coming to me for help but

1413
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:21,670
you know because it's amazing to see the

1414
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:22,960
stuff that people say

1415
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:25,040
and just what's out there and how big

1416
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,319
this really is and like

1417
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:28,319
some of the weirder parts of my story

1418
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:30,720
that are in the book that i told nomar i

1419
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:31,280
was like

1420
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:32,960
yeah this is kind of weird but it's just

1421
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:34,880
filler it probably doesn't you know mean

1422
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:35,680
anything

1423
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:37,119
and that's some of the stuff i've gotten

1424
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,720
the most feedback from people who've

1425
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:40,079
already read the book going

1426
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:41,680
oh yeah it's something similar and i was

1427
00:53:45,829 --> 00:53:44,240
like if i had wrote the book myself

1428
00:53:47,349 --> 00:53:45,839
i would have left that out i wouldn't

1429
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:47,359
even put that in there because it was

1430
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:49,599
too weird it didn't fit

1431
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:51,440
and that was a great thing about nomar

1432
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:52,800
one not only that

1433
00:53:57,750 --> 00:53:55,200
he's just so understanding and kind but

1434
00:54:00,549 --> 00:53:57,760
he's not only the author in this he

1435
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,559
he writes the story in such a way that

1436
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:02,240
yeah my story

1437
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:05,359
um you know keeps the pages

1438
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:09,040
turning but and not in the egotistical

1439
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:11,599
way he inserts himself as a character

1440
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:13,040
too because

1441
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,920
he steps back like in the process as he

1442
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:17,760
we're doing this interview

1443
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:20,000
and kind of puts in his reflections of

1444
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:21,280
what he's thinking

1445
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:23,520
and you know he becomes his own little

1446
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:25,040
character in the book

1447
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:26,640
and which i think is great and i don't

1448
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:28,160
mean to throw him out under the bus and

1449
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,200
i don't think i am

1450
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:31,680
said in other interviews he doesn't call

1451
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:32,800
himself an experience

1452
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:35,920
he's seeing quite a bit of weird stuff

1453
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:39,359
yeah yeah there's a trust factor there i

1454
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:40,960
can understand that that um

1455
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:43,359
absolutely you really you know you

1456
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:44,559
really have to

1457
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:48,319
get close with people who have had these

1458
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,319
experiences as opposed to

1459
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:52,720
somebody who saw a bigfoot or so

1460
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:53,920
something else

1461
00:54:59,670 --> 00:54:57,040
uh it it requires more

1462
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:59,680
yeah like more understanding yeah like

1463
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:00,720
what did you feel

1464
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,839
it what what happened the day after you

1465
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:05,359
know how were you feeling you know the

1466
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:06,160
week after

1467
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:08,960
and and like all of that in my opinion

1468
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:09,359
is

1469
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:14,880
uh like mike was saying i don't really

1470
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:16,720
consider myself an experiencer just

1471
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:18,000
because i've kind of put mike

1472
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:21,440
at the uh he that part

1473
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,880
like you have to experience what he has

1474
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:24,559
to be an experiencer i mean not really

1475
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:25,040
but

1476
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:27,119
uh that's how i consider myself like i

1477
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,880
haven't had the experiences mike had so

1478
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:30,240
i'm not an experience here i've just

1479
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:31,119
seen some stuff

1480
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:34,640
like you know millions of people have um

1481
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:37,680
but i did have my own creature sighting

1482
00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:39,599
uh and it was the first one i ever had

1483
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:42,240
except i had one like 10 years prior but

1484
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:43,599
it was like in a dream like

1485
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:45,599
state so i have no idea if it was real

1486
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,520
but this one i was driving and it was a

1487
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:49,440
hundred percent real

1488
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:53,280
and it's always interesting to me

1489
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:56,079
when a researcher of this phenomena has

1490
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:57,839
their own experiences

1491
00:56:01,750 --> 00:56:00,480
and what do you do with that you know

1492
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:01,760
what do i do with it

1493
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:04,000
so what i did was i actually took my

1494
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:05,520
experience and i gave it

1495
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:08,880
to another researcher so it could be uh

1496
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:12,240
uh marked down as historical record

1497
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:15,359
uh i i have talked about it publicly

1498
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:17,119
just a couple of times

1499
00:56:20,950 --> 00:56:19,040
but i wanted to hand it off to somebody

1500
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:20,960
else because you know i didn't

1501
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:23,760
i wanted as unbiased an opinion or

1502
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:25,200
whatever as possible

1503
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:26,799
because obviously i have my own biases

1504
00:56:31,950 --> 00:56:28,880
and perceptions and all that stuff

1505
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:31,960
but seeing the creature and keeping the

1506
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:34,720
experiencer in the in my mind as opposed

1507
00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:35,440
to the

1508
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:38,640
interviewer or the the researcher i

1509
00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:42,160
had emotions uh along with that there

1510
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:43,440
was fear

1511
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:46,480
there was confusion there was awe

1512
00:56:49,829 --> 00:56:49,280
and uh there were also some physical

1513
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:49,839
aspects

1514
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:53,280
i smelled uh something

1515
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:55,839
that reminded me of sulfur when i

1516
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:56,480
stopped

1517
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,960
and rolled down my window at the area

1518
00:57:01,829 --> 00:57:00,880
where i saw this creature it had since

1519
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:01,839
left

1520
00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:03,599
but i wanted to experience the

1521
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,880
environment and ended up

1522
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:07,200
actually smelling something and i didn't

1523
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:08,960
i wasn't expecting that i was actually

1524
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:10,079
rolling down the window to see if i

1525
00:57:13,510 --> 00:57:11,520
could hear it walking

1526
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:13,520
in the woods and and i couldn't but the

1527
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:14,960
smell was there and it actually stayed

1528
00:57:17,670 --> 00:57:15,680
with me

1529
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:17,680
for a couple of miles down the road and

1530
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:19,520
it got so bad i had to roll the windows

1531
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:20,079
down

1532
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:23,280
but anyways my parents don't live that

1533
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:25,200
far from from where i live

1534
00:57:28,549 --> 00:57:26,880
so i actually drove right to my mom's

1535
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:28,559
house i was like you gotta hear what

1536
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:29,760
just happened

1537
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,440
and just and the point of me telling you

1538
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:33,520
that is i was in full

1539
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:36,880
experiencer mode in that moment and

1540
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:40,079
it was honestly nice to be on that side

1541
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:42,319
of it because of all these projects i'm

1542
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:43,599
always on the other side

1543
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:45,920
right but once i got done telling my mom

1544
00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:47,359
and i took her to the spot and showed

1545
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,440
her where i saw it and all that stuff

1546
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:51,839
i i went home and i wrote down the

1547
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:53,440
experience and then i contacted an

1548
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:54,000
investigator

1549
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:57,520
and gave them my story but you know to

1550
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:01,359
to be an experiencer on one hand and to

1551
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,400
be the researcher

1552
00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:04,880
on the other is a privilege in my

1553
00:58:07,829 --> 00:58:05,599
opinion

1554
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:07,839
and you know mike is doing that as well

1555
00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:09,119
so

1556
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:10,799
it feels as though we're on the same

1557
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:12,640
page like philosophically

1558
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:15,040
you know not to overuse the word but we

1559
00:58:20,829 --> 00:58:17,040
we seem to be on that same

1560
00:58:23,589 --> 00:58:20,839
page and and that has to do with uh

1561
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,599
understanding the not only the

1562
00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:25,280
experience but what somebody goes

1563
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:26,079
through

1564
00:58:31,589 --> 00:58:29,119
mm-hmm brother i'm in the same boat

1565
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:31,599
because i've had encounters myself

1566
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:34,960
and it you really uh

1567
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:38,720
i i think you you really do get a better

1568
00:58:42,789 --> 00:58:39,760
insight

1569
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:42,799
of what people are going through uh

1570
00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:45,760
you know their confusion more more than

1571
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:47,200
anything else

1572
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:49,680
uh that you have the ability then to

1573
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:51,760
answer a lot of their questions or even

1574
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:52,720
to

1575
00:58:59,349 --> 00:58:55,920
what they

1576
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,359
they went through sure yeah and so

1577
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:01,440
well i was just going to say you know

1578
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:02,960
that there's a lot of

1579
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,160
in trauma for you know domestic abuse or

1580
00:59:10,549 --> 00:59:08,319
or things like that a lot of the

1581
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:10,559
supporters or people that help them are

1582
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:12,480
survivors themselves

1583
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:14,240
you know and it's kind of a similar

1584
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:17,599
thing that's happening here you know

1585
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:20,240
yeah and so much of this book the the

1586
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:22,160
process of writing the book

1587
00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:25,119
you know didn't go as planned it was

1588
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:26,720
because

1589
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,880
stuff happened and we trusted each other

1590
00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:30,480
like we both had to make

1591
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:32,720
all these like really leaps of faith

1592
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:34,480
like are we in this together or aren't

1593
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:35,359
we

1594
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:38,319
or i'm you know i i'm trusting him with

1595
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:39,280
my story

1596
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:42,640
my life you know in one way of putting

1597
00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,440
it

1598
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:45,440
and that you know like he's an author

1599
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:47,359
he's a creator that's what he does

1600
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:50,000
this is you know why he's a millionaire

1601
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:51,359
right no

1602
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:55,040
um and but so the publisher picked it up

1603
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:56,480
and they're like yeah we want control we

1604
00:59:58,870 --> 00:59:58,319
have final control of the cover the

1605
01:00:00,470 --> 00:59:58,880
title

1606
01:00:02,630 --> 01:00:00,480
and this and that was before they even

1607
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:02,640
got into editing it and we're like

1608
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,240
he's like no i'm not comfortable with

1609
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:06,559
this man you know he's like i don't

1610
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:10,079
and i'm like i got you he's like

1611
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:11,839
if i walk away you okay i'm like yeah

1612
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:13,520
he's like they

1613
01:00:18,069 --> 01:00:16,079
own you know because of other previous

1614
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:18,079
contracts that he's written books

1615
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:19,839
for them like they owned him for a

1616
01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:22,160
little bit he's like it could be a while

1617
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:23,760
before we can do anything with this i'm

1618
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:24,400
like

1619
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:25,920
it's okay we're gonna do this right or

1620
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:28,640
we're not and it worked out they let us

1621
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,240
they let us out let them out of the

1622
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:32,640
contract other things just

1623
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:34,400
everything fell in the place the way we

1624
01:00:39,750 --> 01:00:36,640
needed to be like

1625
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,760
it was amazing process to go through it

1626
01:00:43,589 --> 01:00:41,520
to me it was just amazing as some of the

1627
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:43,599
experiences that led us to writing the

1628
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:45,040
book

1629
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:47,280
and there's you know i'm not afraid to

1630
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:48,880
use this word but it might sound

1631
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:50,640
weird to to listeners but there's an

1632
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:52,000
intimacy

1633
01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:55,200
there that we didn't expect and

1634
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:57,359
because of mike's willingness to be so

1635
01:01:00,630 --> 01:01:00,160
raw and real with the emotional side of

1636
01:01:03,829 --> 01:01:00,640
it

1637
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:03,839
i felt that the only thing i could do

1638
01:01:09,829 --> 01:01:07,440
was to be just as raw and real about

1639
01:01:11,670 --> 01:01:09,839
my own inner turmoil that is sometimes

1640
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:11,680
extraterrestrial related and sometimes

1641
01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:12,559
just life

1642
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:16,079
related i i suffer medically diagnosed

1643
01:01:20,630 --> 01:01:18,000
with anxiety and depression

1644
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:20,640
and you know suicidal ideation is a

1645
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:21,520
thing

1646
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:24,960
that happens in my life and to normalize

1647
01:01:28,549 --> 01:01:26,160
that discussion

1648
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:28,559
is a really big deal in my world

1649
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:30,799
everybody has mental health issues

1650
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:33,760
and and if we can normalize that

1651
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:34,480
discussion

1652
01:01:37,990 --> 01:01:37,520
at least between friends then we can

1653
01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:38,000
normalize

1654
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:39,920
that discussion when we come on a show

1655
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:41,040
like this or

1656
01:01:44,150 --> 01:01:42,480
if we're given a presentation we can

1657
01:01:46,390 --> 01:01:44,160
talk about it because it's so important

1658
01:01:49,270 --> 01:01:46,400
and because so many people go through it

1659
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:49,280
and this book goes to some really really

1660
01:01:53,829 --> 01:01:50,079
dark

1661
01:01:56,069 --> 01:01:53,839
places before it gets lighter and

1662
01:01:57,109 --> 01:01:56,079
that's not to keep the pages turning or

1663
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:57,119
to sell more books

1664
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:59,760
it's because that's what's happening in

1665
01:02:03,190 --> 01:02:01,280
our lives and that's what's happening in

1666
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:03,200
a lot of people's lives

1667
01:02:07,750 --> 01:02:06,799
and we feel like we hope anyways that

1668
01:02:10,870 --> 01:02:07,760
this book

1669
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:10,880
will be relatable uh to people that are

1670
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:13,119
suffering and whether we hear back from

1671
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:14,400
them or not

1672
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:16,799
uh is not the point we just hope it

1673
01:02:20,230 --> 01:02:17,520
helps

1674
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:20,240
you know yeah at some point we made the

1675
01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:22,559
decision not to make this a ufo book to

1676
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:23,119
make this

1677
01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:26,799
about the human experience and it it was

1678
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:27,760
a gamble but

1679
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:30,640
we we hope it's paying off well it works

1680
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:31,680
i mean you know

1681
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:33,760
you can tell that when you read it the

1682
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:36,559
book is titled granite skies

1683
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:39,839
a concerted journey through the unknown

1684
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:42,240
and guys i want to thank you for coming

1685
01:02:45,750 --> 01:02:43,039
on the show

1686
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:45,760
if you guys come up with any follow-up

1687
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:47,280
or have other projects

1688
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:49,359
let me know about it i will definitely

1689
01:02:53,109 --> 01:02:51,520
try to get you back on the show

1690
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:53,119
appreciate a lot more we'd be more than

1691
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:55,119
appreciated yeah yeah we'll keep you in

1692
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:57,039
the fold thanks so much for having us on

1693
01:03:02,230 --> 01:02:58,559
okay you take care and have a great

1694
01:03:03,990 --> 01:03:02,240
weekend you too take care of you as well

1695
01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:04,000
now if you have an unexplained encounter

1696
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:05,760
sighting feel free to contact me through

1697
01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:08,000
the phantoms of monsters blog site

1698
01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:09,760
if you're interested in supporting fans

1699
01:03:13,430 --> 01:03:11,520
of monsters and arcane radio you can use

1700
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:13,440
the paypal donation buttons

1701
01:03:17,829 --> 01:03:15,039
on the blog and newsletter your

1702
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:17,839
continued support is always appreciated

1703
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:19,520
our new youtube channel beyond

1704
01:03:22,789 --> 01:03:22,000
explanation has new content being added

1705
01:03:25,829 --> 01:03:22,799
daily

1706
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:25,839
including arcane radio archive shows and

1707
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:26,720
soon we'll

1708
01:03:31,589 --> 01:03:29,280
be we'll be putting and producing

1709
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:31,599
documentaries on there as well

1710
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,240
check it out and subscribe i want to

1711
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:36,400
again thank newmar slavic and

1712
01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:38,880
mike stevens for joining me this evening

1713
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:40,400
and i want to thank you for listening to

1714
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:41,520
the show

1715
01:03:44,789 --> 01:03:43,680
stay healthy and have a safe and

1716
01:04:01,570 --> 01:03:44,799
enjoyable weekend

1717
01:04:01,580 --> 01:04:10,829
[Music]

1718
01:04:10,839 --> 01:04:22,060
so